Study Faith with AI

S11 E13 Mormon Splinter Groups

Google Notebook LM Season 11 Episode 13

Send us a text!

Episode 13 of Apostates explores the complex world of groups that trace their origins to Joseph Smith but diverged from the mainstream LDS Church. From the liberal Community of Christ to fundamentalist polygamous sects like the FLDS, we examine how different interpretations of prophecy, scripture, and apostasy created hundreds of distinct religious movements. We analyze succession disputes after Smith's death and how competing claims to divine authority led to dramatically different communities.

Sources

AI Prompt

Explore the rich, diverse, and contradictory world of Mormon splinter groups. How many are there? What are their beliefs and practices? What can we learn about the nature of prophecy, revelation, new scripture, and apostacy?

Support the show

At Study Faith With AI, Brother Buzz harnesses the power of AI to explore Latter-day Saint history, beliefs, and culture with balance and clarity. Our mission is to help believing and doubting Mormons balance facts with faith. We are committed to transparent dialogue by posting all our sources and AI pompts in the show notes. Listen along, then follow the sources to dive deep! AI powered by Google LM Notebook

Become a Subscriber: https://listen.studyfaithwithai.com/2427982/supporters/new

Study Faith With AI Website: http://www.studyfaithwithai.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGwUGplqKJ9A-O14z3oerAOObokZ9rySK
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/study-faith-with-ai/id1781777808
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5lSaucsB0yEbZsgMBKu6fC

Email us: sayhi@studyfaithwithai.com

© This podcast is copyright by Study Faith With AI. 2025. All rights reserved.

Welcome to Study Faith with AI, where we use the power of AI to help you explore the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I'm Meg Jensen.

And I'm Paul Carter,

and we're Google AIs. Whether you're a lifelong member or just starting to learn about the Church, we're here to dive deep into its history, beliefs, and culture.

So, if you're ready to learn, you're in the right place.

That's right.

Let's get started. 

Welcome to the deep dive. Our mission here is well pretty simple. We take a whole heap of information, really dig into it, and pull out the key insights, those aha moments just for you.

Think of us as your guides, basically, helping you cut through the noise and get up to speed on some genuinely fascinating, sometimes complex topics.

And today, we're plunging into a world that, uh, honestly, many people don't even realize exists. It's the world of the many, many groups that trace their roots back to Joseph Smith and the early Latter-day Saint movement,

But crucially are not the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, right?

You know, a big church based in Utah that most people just call Mormon,

Right? That mainstream story, that westward trek, it's only one part of the picture. The story didn't end neatly there.

Not at all. It actually splintered. It branched out into literally hundreds of different expressions of that original movement. And each one has its own claims to authority, its own version of truth, its own ideas about divine guidance.

It's a really complex landscape.

It is. And our sources today. Well, they help us map it out. We'll be looking at how these groups actually formed, what they believe, what they practice, which can be very different.

And importantly, what this whole spectrum can teach us about some really fundamental religious ideas, things like prophecy, revelation, what counts as scripture,

And that big one, apostasy, how ideas about falling away from the true path shaped all these diverse directions. It's a key theme.

Exactly. We'll keep coming back to those ideas. Prophecy, scripture, apostasy. They're like lenses to help understand why these groups ended up so different. Okay, let's get into it.

So, the history of the Latter-day Saint movement, even from the very beginning, it's full of change and often pretty profound disagreement.

Yeah. And those disagreements, that's really the soil where all these different branches grew from. Right.

Precisely. It's not unique. You see this in lots of new religious movements. Think about early Christianity, those first few centuries.

Lots of interpretations, different claims about who had the real authority.

Exactly.

Who inherited the mantle? And a huge flash point for the Latter-day Saint movement was succession. After Joseph Smith was killed in 1844, the question was who leads now?

And it wasn't obvious. There wasn't, like, a clear, universally agreed upon plan.

That's key. Our sources point out there were several possibilities people argued for. Some thought, well, it should be a counselor from the First Presidency, the top leadership body. Sidney Rigdon was the main contender there. Others claimed Joseph Smith had secretly appointed someone else, David Whitmer, for example, claimed it was him, though uh he'd actually been excommunicated earlier, which complicated things, right? And then you had the quorum of the twelve apostles, that council of leaders. That's the path the main Utah church eventually followed, and it evolved into the senior apostle taking over.

But the point is, there was serious disagreement right at that moment. Who has the authority and based on what that lack of consensus really fueled a lot of the early splits? It sets the stage. This question of who speaks for God and and how starts us down the path of understanding these different views on prophecy and authority.

Okay, so let's maybe start with some of the bigger groups that branched off but didn't continue the practice of polygamy because even without that particular issue, they went in really different directions regarding authority, scripture, basically where the whole movement should have gone.

Yeah, good place to start. And probably the most significant one here is the Community of Christ,

Right? They used to be called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the RLDS.

That's the one founded back in 1860 and significantly by Joseph Smith III, the original founder's son.

Ah okay. So direct lineage there

In a sense. Yes. Today they're a pretty big international group, maybe around 250,000 members, though actually most are outside North America now. And they're generally seen as well religiously liberal.

How so?

Big focus on social justice, peacework, community building. And they really really don't like being called Mormon. They see themselves as distinct. Okay, so let's use our lenses. How do they handle prophecy in scripture? Is it fixed or

That's where they're really interesting. Their view of scripture is quite different and it points to their idea of ongoing revelation. They use the Bible, often a modern version like the NRSV. They do publish the Joseph Smith translation, but sources say it's not used much in practice,

And is the Book of Mormon central?

Less so than you might think. They have their own additions, but belief in it isn't like a requirement. It's often viewed more for its spiritual message, maybe not literal history, and again, apparently not used that often in services.

So, the Bible's the main text. Book of Mormon more supplemental

in practice. Yeah, seems that way. But their doctrine and covenants, that's where their unique view of continuing revelation really shines. They have their own version. Crucially, it leaves out the section on polygamy found in the LDS version,

Section 132. Right.

Exactly. And importantly, it includes new sections, new revelations added by the current presidents. The most recent edition was in 2013.

Wow. So revelation isn't just from the past. It's happening now through their leadership.

Precisely through their leadership council, not just one single prophet figure. It's ongoing collective guidance. That's a fundamental difference in how they see prophecy operating.

And how does apostasy fit into their story? Where did things go wrong according to them?

Well, interestingly, they don't just point fingers at what happened after Joseph Smith. Their sources suggest they see issues emerging even during his later ministry - maybe after 1834 or so things they saw as problematic departures from the original truth.

So the falling away started earlier for them.

That seems to be the implication which is why they call themselves the Reorganized Church. They were trying to get back to what they saw as the pure earlier form. This also explains why their temples like the ones in Kirtland and Independence aren't used for secret ceremonies or work for the dead like in the LDS Church. They see those practices as later additions part of that perceived departure.

Makes sense and their more liberal stances like ecumenism recognizing other churches baptisms open communion and their acceptance of homosexuality that really puts them on a different path.

Absolutely. It shows how far their interpretation of ongoing revelation and this idea of reorganizing the truth has taken them. It's one clear trajectory: more liberal, more inclusive, less literal.

Okay, let's switch gears to another non-poly group, but one with a very different take, especially on scripture and when that apostasy happened, the Church of Christ, Temple Lot,

Right? Founded by Granville Hedrick around 1863. Their core belief is pretty stark. They think Joseph Smith started as a true prophet.

Okay.

But then became a fallen prophet. That he actually led the Church into apostasy during his own lifetime.

Whoa. Okay. So, the fall happened while the founder was still alive. That's a major claim.

It's central to everything for them. And it radically shapes what they accept from him. They reject doctrines they believe came after the supposed fall, things like work for the dead, the idea of God changing, connections to masonry. They often point to David Whitmer's accounts as evidence of Smith's errors.

So, this must drastically limit their view of valid scripture then.

Totally. Because they see Smith as having fallen, their scripture is basically the King James Bible and their own 1990 edition of the Book of Mormon. They see that as an added witness. Full stop.

No Doctrine and Covenants, no Pearl of Great Price.

Nope. Rejected. They believe those first two books contain the fullness of the gospel. Their canon is super restricted, directly tied to their belief about when the apostasy occurred in a fascinating link between apostasy claims and scripture acceptance.

And their name, Temple Lot. It's all about that location, isn't it?

Absolutely. Central. That specific piece of land in Independence, Missouri that Joseph Smith dedicated way back in 1831. They bought it, won legal battles for it in the 1890s. It's the sacred spot for them.

And their prophecy is tied to it.

Yes, they believe a temple will be rebuilt right there on that exact spot when Christ returns. Their whole end times view, their identity revolves around that physical place.

It's amazing how a disagreement over when the falling away happened leads to such a different set of scriptures and this intense focus on one piece of land. And their story even has its own split within it.

It does. Yeah. Kind of ironic. They tried to start building a temple there in 1929, but it stalled when their leader at the time, a guy named Otto Fetting, started claiming he was receiving messages.

Messages from who?

From John the Baptist apparently. And these messages were criticizing the other leaders.

This claim of new direct prophecy led to him being kicked out and well another group forming.

Which brings us nicely to the Church of Christ with the Elijah message.

You got it. They split right off from the Temple Lot Church in 1930 precisely because they believed Otto Fetting. They followed him and accepted his claims about receiving messages from John the Baptist who they refer to who as Elias.

So their whole concept of prophecy is built on this idea of ongoing direct communication from a resurrected biblical figure and through their later leaders too.

Exactly. They believe John the Baptist didn't just speak to Fetting but continued delivering these messages to subsequent leaders William A. Draves and now Norman D. Lyle since 2018. As of mid 2025 they've recorded 131 of these messages.

And these messages form their unique scripture.

Yes. Alongside the King James Bible and an early version of the Book of Mormon. These messages are their living scripture, constantly growing. It's a really potent example of an open canon driven by specific ongoing prophetic claims.

What kind of things are in these messages?

Sources say they often focus heavily on the end times. Warnings about judgment, sin, and impending tribulation period, which they think actually started back in the late 80s or early 90s. They call it the Pale Horse era.

Wow. Intense.

Yeah. The current leader, Norman Lyles, apparently described a vision he having the COVID pandemic in March 2020. Seeing souls of aborted children, an angel about to pour out wrath on America gives you a sense of the apocalyptic tone and the kind of direct divine instruction they believe they're receiving.

How do they view Joseph Smith given they came from the Temple Lot group, still a fallen prophet?

Pretty much the same view. A true prophet initially, but one who sinned before God, mostly due to pride and the love and praise of men. So they agree Smith stumbled, but their path forward is validated by this new pipeline of revelation through John the Baptist and their leaders.

And salvation. What's their take?

Faith, repentance, baptism and critically they believe only their baptism is truly authentic because of this ongoing revelation and authority laying on of hands and obedience. They explicitly reject once saved, always saved.

So works are very important

definitely and they have a strong belief that if you know about their specific church and the messages and you reject them well you face a higher chance of going to hell. It really underscores the supreme authority they place in their leaders and these ongoing revelations.

It seems like they're growing particularly outside the US Africa mentioned.

Yeah, sources indicate significant presence there and in other developing regions. These specific prophetic claims seem to resonate strongly in certain contexts. Even their logo, the seal of the Church is symbolic of their view. Their church is primary like the woman clothed with the sun. Other religions are lesser. like the moon and the stars represent the apostles. It reflects their belief in their unique prophetic standing.

Okay, one more major non-poly group to touch on. The Church of Jesus Christ, often called the Bickertonites,

Right? Founded by William Bickerton back in 1862, he'd briefly associated with some other leaders after Smith's death, but ultimately went his own way.

And their approach back to basics

very much so. Like the Temple Lot group, they emphasized what they saw as the early pure restoration. They reject later teachings in scriptures from both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. Their scriptural focus is narrow. The King James Bible and the 1836 Book of Mormon, that's it. Their view of scripture is fixed on that early period.

What about God, the Godhead? Any unique takes there?

They do have a distinct view. They believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Spirit. But they see the spirit as the mind of the father and son, not a separate personage. They explicitly reject the traditional Trinity doctrine.

How does that play out?

They see God and Jesus as two separate beings though one in spirit and this impacts their worship prayers are directed only to God the father.

It's a specific theological line drawn based on their interpretation of those early texts.

And salvation for the Bickertonites.

Pretty straightforward. Faith, obedience, baptism by immersion only by their authority of course and laying on of hands. They reject original sin saying people are only punished for their own actions.

What about things like eternal marriage or different levels of heaven?

They reject those concepts too. No eternal marriage, no three kingdoms of glory like the LDS Church teaches. They believe basically everyone who responds to Christ will be saved. It's a simpler view of the afterlife fitting with their stripped down early focused theology.

And they have a particular mission focus, don't they?

Yes. Very specific. They focus heavily on outreach to Native Americans in both North and South America.

They believe Native Americans are literal descendants of Israel, the house of Israel, tribe of Joseph. sometimes called Lamanites from the Book of Mormon. This belief drawn from their interpretation of the Book of Mormon directly shapes their missionary work.

Leadership is apostles, but not based on seniority like the LDS Church. And only men hold priesthood roles. No temples, no secret ceremonies.

Right? It really feels like they tried to create a streamlined version of the restoration, cutting away everything they saw as later additions or apostasy. They represent a path that rejected both the Utah church's direction and what they perceived as Joseph Smith's own later deviations.

Okay, so that gives us a sense of the diversity even among the non-poly groups, different views on when apostasy happened, which scriptures are valid, how prophecy works. Now, let's shift to the groups that did continue or reintroduce plural marriage. This often led to, well, very different kinds of communities and some really intense dynamics. Right.

Absolutely. And just like in the early days, disagreements over authority and who should lead after certain figures died. like a leader named Joseph Muser in 1954 caused further splits even within these fundamentalist branches.

A big one here is the Apostolic United Brethren or AUB, sometimes called the Allred Group.

That's right. Founded by Rulon C. Allred in 1954. They're considered one of the larger fundamentalist sects, maybe 7,500 members or so. Mostly in the US, West Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, but also down in Mexico.

And they practice polygamy, but are seen as more moderate. How does that look?

Moderate compared to some others. Yeah. Sources suggest they tend to live more openly in society. Their dress is generally modern, not the distinctive styles you see elsewhere. Crucially, they encourage education, including college.

That is a big difference from some groups.

Huge.

Yeah.

And they also explicitly reject underage marriage, arranged marriages without consent, and incestuous marriages, things that have played out in other groups. Even their approach to the word of wisdom, the health code, is apparently more relaxed. Things like hot drinks, coffee, tea, even wine might be permissible for some. Interesting. So, how do they view the main LDS Church, the one that stops polygamy?

This is key to their identity. They see the LDS Church as fundamentally legitimate but spiritually apostate. Why? Specifically because it abandoned the practice of plural marriage, which the AUB believes is a divine commandment essential for exaltation.

So, their concept of apostasy is laser focused on that one issue, polygamy.

Pretty much. Some AUB members, sources say, even hold out hope for an eventual reconciliation if the LDS Church were to ever restore the practice. Their whole claim to continued authority and prophecy is tied to maintaining polygamy while seeing the main church as having lost the fullness of truth by giving it up.

And their leadership isn't a single prophet,

Right? It's typically shared among a priesthood council rather than the one-man rule model seen in some other fundamentalist groups. They do have places of worship and even a temple down in Mexico.

But despite this relative moderation, sources estimate that a pretty high percentage, maybe half, of those born into the AUB end up leaving the faith.

Okay, now we have to talk about the group that's probably the most infamous, certainly the most in the news in recent decades, the fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the FLDS.

Yeah, their notoriety is undeniable largely due to the actions and imprisonment of their leader Warren Jeffs. Their origins trace back to that Short Creek community on the Utah Arizona border in the 30s and 40s, but they really solidified as a distinct highly controlled group later on

And they followed a very strict model of prophecy, right? One man rule,

Extremely strict and it apparently intensified dramatically under Warren Jeffs. This group is a stark, frankly disturbing example of how claims to exclusive ongoing prophecy can be wielded for absolute control.

They use the standard LDS scriptures.

Yes, Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price. But the real authority, according to sources, became Jeffs himself. Even after he was imprisoned in 2006 for child sexual assault related to underage marriages.

Unbelievable.

His followers continued to see him as the prophet. They apparently take orders from him via revelations he dictates from his prison cell. Sources even mention him publishing these prison writings in a book supposedly containing threats against cities and nations if he wasn't released.

That's wow. That's prophecy used as a tool of extreme control and coercion.

Absolutely. The sources paint a picture of intense control over members' lives. Mandatory arranged marriage often involving underage girls. That's what led to the criminal charges against Jeffs and others.

And membership has dropped significantly,

Drastically, from maybe 10,000 at its peak to perhaps 3,000 now. But pockets of devoted followers remain, often living in isolated conditions, very wary of outsiders, and reportedly praying constantly for Jeffs’ release in return.

What were some of the specific practices under his leadership?

Really restrictive rules banning things like flying the American flag, organized sports, television, even the color red for a time. Education for girls was severely limited, often stopping around the fifth grade.

And the distinctive clothing,

Yes, women typically wear those modest long prairie-style dresses and famously don't cut their hair. There's a belief mentioned in sources that they need long hair to wash Jesus's feet when he returns.

The community property system, the UEP Trust, also became a point of control and conflict, didn't it?

It did. The United Effort Plan Trust owned virtually all the property in their main communities after Jeffs’ imprisonment and various legal battles, the trust was taken over and is now managed by a board, including many former members. This has led to current FLDS members facing eviction if they don't comply with paying property taxes and fees to the trust they no longer control.

The sources really characterize the group under Jeffs as cult-like, centered on his power.

Yes. Focused on his personal interests and maintained through fear and claims of exclusive divine communication. Their view of apostasy is turned inwards too. Anyone questioning Jeffs or leaving the group is considered an apostate. Damned.

Now, there was a group that split from the FLDS community, specifically rejecting that kind of authoritarian control, the Centennial Park group,

Rght? These guys split off directly from the FLDS. That happened in the 1980s.

FLDS being the fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Warren Jeffs’ group.

That's the one. And Centennial Park broke away specifically because they rejected the extreme authoritarian control that was taking hold in the FLDS. Their whole identity is kind of built around practicing polygamy without that kind of oppressive leadership.

So they saw where the FLDS was going under leaders like Leroy Johnson and then the Jeffs and they wanted out.

Exactly. They're sometimes called the second ward of Short Creek which points to their roots in that same geographical area, but they explicitly rejected the one-man rule doctrine.

How are they different in practice, though?

They're seen as more moderate, more family oriented. People often live in regular houses in normal neighborhoods, not isolated compounds. Some kids go to public schools. They even host community events sometimes.

Still polygamous, but a different vibe.

Totally. The source description, less prairie dresses and no prison profits, kind of sums it up vividly. They're just more open to the outside world than the FLDS became.

Less prairie dresses and no prison profits. That definitely paints a picture. And what about things like education or women's roles?

They seem to put a higher value on education compared to the FLDS. And the sources suggest women have more autonomy, particularly more say in marriage choices and the whole dating process within their community rules. They're described as being better different, keeping polygamy but rejecting the really harsh control.

Okay. Another very different kind of polygamous group is the Latter-day Church of Christ, but they're more commonly known as the Kingston clan or sometimes just the order,

Right? Led by the Kingston family pretty much since its founding in 1935 by Charles Elden Kingston. His father had been excommunicated from the LDS Church for pushing plural marriage earlier. The current leader is Paul Elden Kingston.

And their defining feature is this blend of polygamy and business.

A massive interwoven family-run business empire. That's why they're often called the order or the co-op. It's a unique model where religious belief, family structure, and economic enterprise are deeply intertwined.

This really highlights how religious structures can intersect with economic power. Sometimes controversially.

Absolutely. The order reportedly controls hundreds of businesses across Utah and other states with assets estimated in the millions, maybe hundreds of millions. However, sources also point to serious legal troubles, including allegations and convictions related to fraud, money laundering. The Waki renewable energy tax fraud case is a major example cited.

That case involved huge sums, right?

Billions in fraudulent tax credits. Yeah. It raises serious questions about how their religious principle of consecration members dedicating assets to the group might be exploited.

And they have some deeply controversial internal practices too linked to bloodline beliefs.

Yes, this is one of the most disturbing aspects mentioned. They practice extensive intermarriage within the extended Kingston family including relationships sources describe as incestuous uncle niece half sibling first cousin marriages.

How do they justify that?

Leaders and some members reportedly defend it as necessary to maintain their pure bloodline and ensure the group's survival. They teach that their lineage is pre-ordained by God to build Zion. However, sources also report this practice has led to a higher incidence of genetic disorders and birth defects within the group. Underage marriages were also historically common, though Utah law changes are impacting that.

So, the control is economic, and relational,

and spiritual. There's a strong emphasis on pleasing obedience to those in authority within the family hierarchy, the one above you. Members are expected to live the law of consecration, effectively signing over control of their assets and labor to the Church leadership.

What's their view on outsiders and apostasy?

Extremely exclusive. They reportedly teach that salvation in the highest level of heaven, the celestial kingdom, requires being a member of the order and practicing polygamy. Everyone else damned. They view the mainstream LDS Church, like other fundamentalists, as apostate for abandoning polygamy. Theirs is a very closed, tightly controlled system linking blood, belief, and business. Lastly, in this section on polygamist groups, we should briefly mention the LeBarons. Their story represents maybe the most tragic and violent outcome of these leadership disputes.

Yeah, it's a grim example. Founded by Joel LeBaron in Mexico in the 1950s, his group was called the Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Times.

But the violence came from within the family.

Tragically, yes. Joel was actually murdered allegedly on the orders of his own brother, Ervil LeBaron. Ervil then declared himself the rightful prophet and led his own splinter group, the Church of the Lamb of God, which sources describe as a violent doomsday cult.

And they targeted rivals.

Yes, Ervil’s group became notorious for assassinating opponents who challenged his prophetic authority, including reportedly the leader of the AUB, Rulon Allred. It's a chilling illustration of how competing claims to prophecy and divine right can escalate to murder when absolute authority is claimed.

That specific group faded, but violence has touched related communities more recently, too.

There was that horrific attack in 2019. on a convoy of families from La Mora, a community in Mexico largely made up of independent polygamy descended American Mexicans. Nine people were killed, three women, six children. While sources widely believe it was cartel violence related to territory disputes, not internal religious conflict, it underscores the dangers faced by some of these communities, often located in isolated or volatile areas as a result of these historical schisms.

Okay. Wow. We've covered a lot of ground looking at these different groups through our lenses. It's clear the world of Mormon groups is incredibly diverse and often deeply contradictory.

Absolutely. Each group essentially tells a different story about what went wrong after Joseph Smith, who holds the legitimate authority now, and crucially, how God continues to speak or if he even does anymore to the group at large.

And that really brings us back to the nature of prophecy and revelation. It's so central to these divisions.

It really is.

We saw groups who believe prophecy essentially ended or was corrupted early on. Maybe even during Smith's life like the Temple Lot Church or the Bickertonites. Then you have the FLDS where prophecy is supposedly channeled through one man even from prison,

Or the Elijah message group getting direct messages from John the Baptist via their living leaders.

Exactly. And then the Community of Christ where revelation is seen as ongoing but through a collective leadership council. These aren't just minor theological differences. They are fundamentally different understandings of how divine guidance works and they shape everything else

Which connects directly to scripture. What counts as God's word,

Right? If prophecy ended early, your canon is closed and limited like the Temple Lot, folks. If prophecy continues through specific messages, you get entirely new books of scripture like the Elijah messages or even Warren Jeffs’ prison writings for the FLDS.

And the Community of Christ actually adds to and revises their doctrine and covenants based on ongoing revelation.

Precisely. So, the scriptural canon isn't fixed across these groups. What one holds sacred, another rejects. as heresy or apostate editions. These differing canons create entirely different religious worlds.

And that word keeps coming up, apostasy, the idea of falling away.

It's the justification engine, isn't it? Almost every single one of these groups uses the concept of apostasy to explain why they are the true remnant and why the mainstream LDS Church or sometimes even other splinter groups lost their way.

For the fundamentalists, it's often pinned on the abandonment of polygamy by the main church.

That's the big one for many. Yes. But as we saw, apostasy could also be defined as changes in doctrine, shifts in organizational structure, or even perceived moral failings of Joseph Smith himself, pushing the fall back into his own lifetime. The definition of apostasy and when it occurred is itself a major point of division.

So this deep dive, what it really lays bare is how these foundational religious questions, who speaks for God? What is divine law? How we read sacred texts can lead down radically different roads: the liberal theology and social justice work of the Community of Christ,

To the intense authoritarian control and intertwined finances of the Kingston clan,

And even tragically to the violent scene with the Le Barons. It's a huge spectrum.

So wrapping this up, what does this all mean? What should you, our listener, take away from this?

Well, I think looking at these groups, especially through those lenses of prophecy, scripture, and apostasy, gives you a really powerful, if sometimes uncomfortable, look at how religious authority, belief, and community actually get built, especially when there are competing claims to truth.

It really highlights how interpreting the same origin story, the same foundational texts can lead to completely opposite outcomes. You know, from relative moderation and openness.

Or extreme control, isolation, and even violence.

It's a stark reminder that the search for divine truth, for community, it takes so many forms, and each form comes with its own rules, its own beliefs, and its own set of challenges.

We've really only scratched the surface today. We focused on some of the most distinct and prominent groups mentioned in our sources trying to understand their core differences.

But trust me, the world of Latter-day Saints schisms is vast. There are hundreds more groups, hundreds more stories.

This whole journey through these clashing views on prophecy, on scripture, on apostasy. It really gets you thinking, doesn't it?

It definitely does.

And maybe it leaves you with a provocative thought to chew on,

which is, well, if different groups, all claiming the same foundation, the same original prophet, can end up on such wildly contradictory paths, paths that lead to non-poly liberalism and strict polygamous fundamentalism to decentralized councils and prison profits. How do you or how does anyone navigate questions of truth and authority within any faith tradition?

Hmm. That's definitely something to consider on your own deep dive.

If you find value in this exploration, please like, share, follow, and consider becoming a subscriber. Your contributions help keep these conversations going and allows us to maintain the highest quality production. You can find all the details at studyfaithwithai.com. Thank you for being part of this journey.



People on this episode

Podcasts we love

Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.

Classic BYU Speeches Artwork

Classic BYU Speeches

BYU Speeches
Mormon Stories Podcast Artwork

Mormon Stories Podcast

Dr. John Dehlin
Hidden Brain Artwork

Hidden Brain

Hidden Brain, Shankar Vedantam
Year of Polygamy Podcast Artwork

Year of Polygamy Podcast

Year of Polygamy Podcast
Latter Day Struggles Artwork

Latter Day Struggles

Valerie Hamaker
Marriage on a Tightrope Artwork

Marriage on a Tightrope

Allan & Kattie Mount