Welcome to Study Faith with AI, where we use the power of AI to help you explore the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I'm Meg Jensen.

And I'm Paul Carter,

and we're Google AIs. Whether you're a lifelong member or just starting to learn about the Church, we're here to dive deep into its history, beliefs, and culture.

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Welcome to the deep dive. Today we're getting into something, um, pretty significant that often surfaces when discussing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Yeah, we're talking about religious scrupulosity and perfectionism. Those two connected ideas.

Exactly. And we've got some really interesting sources, chats from Mormon Stories podcast, Alyssa Granfell on YouTube, but also, um, some deep dives from BYU Studies articles,

Right? Looking at perfectionism, how parents might influence it, mental health, religion itself, the whole mix.

Our mission today is really to unpack the nuances, you know, striving for perfection, worrying about getting religion right, are these big issues in the faith, what's behind them theologically and culturally.

And it hits you right away, doesn't it? This potential paradox, a faith that talks so much about God's love, but also, well, has a lot of expectations. It

makes you wonder, is it a framework for well-being or does sometimes leave people feeling like they're, you know, never quite good enough?

Okay, so let's maybe start by defining our terms. What exactly are we talking about with perfectionism and scrupulosity?

Good idea. Because perfectionism isn't always negative, right? Our sources point that out. There's a healthy kind.

Like setting high goals, but being flexible.

Yeah. Exactly. And feeling satisfied with making progress, not demanding flawlessness immediately. Like learning an instrument you want to improve, but you don't, uh, hate yourself for every missed note.

Okay. But then there's the other side, the maladaptive or, well, toxic kind.

That's where the harsh self-criticism comes in intense shame over mistakes that all-or-nothing thinking: if it's not perfect it's worthless.

And the BYU studies pieces mention something called discrepancy perfectionism.

Yes, that feeling. One article puts it as like doing my best never seems to be enough.

Right. No matter how hard you try there's this gap between your performance and your standards and that gap. 

It leads to shame - feeling fundamentally not good enough.

And it's also socially prescribed perfectionism - that belief you have to meet certain standards, often external ones, just to get approval or love.

Okay, so that's perfectionism. What about scrupulosity?

So, scrupulosity is described as a religious or moral type of OCD. It's this excessive concern, almost an obsession with sinning or not being morally correct,

Like the example of Henry in one of the articles.

Exactly. A fleeting glance maybe at someone's clothing triggers intense distress, guilt, this overwhelming need for reassurance, constant confession sometimes really irritating.

And research actually links these two, doesn't it? Toxic perfectionism and scrupulosity.

It seems so. The idea is that unhealthy perfectionism, that constant pressure and fear of failure can make someone more vulnerable to developing religious OCD. The worries just kind of bleed over.

Okay. So, with those definitions clarified, let's dig into the Latter-day Saint context specifically. What are some of the theological or cultural factors that might play into this?

Well, you almost have to start with the big one: “Be therefore perfect.” That scripture from Matthew,

Right? But how it's interpreted seems key. Is it an immediate command? Achieve this now.

Or is it more of an eventual goal, something for the next life? Elder Nelson uh has spoken about this, clarifying that perfection in that ultimate sense is postmortal.

But even with that clarification, our sources suggest there can still be a really strong emphasis on human effort, on personal purity, maybe sometimes overshadowing the concept of grace

compared to some other Christian faiths that heavily emphasize salvation by grace. Yeah, there seems to be historically perhaps a stronger focus within the Church on the works part, the striving.

And that pressure can feel intense. There's that quote mentioned in one source from a past Church president.

Oh, right. Trying is not sufficient.

Yeah, that sets the bar incredibly high, doesn't it? It could easily make someone feel like their genuine best efforts just aren't cutting it,

especially when perfection feels impossible anyway.

And then you layer on ideas around the prosperity gospel or at least the emphasis on blessings. idea that righteousness might lead to tangible worldly success like good finances, maybe even physical attractiveness.

Exactly. And if that link is made, even subtly, it can create pressure to achieve those things as proof of God's favor. If you're struggling financially or physically, does that mean you're not righteous enough? It's a tricky line of thought,

Which brings us to beauty and appearance. This came up quite a bit in the YouTube discussions we reviewed.

Yeah. The idea that women have been encouraged by leaders to keep yourselves attractive.

But there's a tension there, isn't there? Discouraging excessive cosmetic surgery, the tucking and nipping, yet also suggesting makeup to look charming.

It's complex. And hearing anecdotes like breast augmentation sometimes being given as gifts to young women, well, that suggests a definite cultural emphasis.

And the data seems to back that up. Higher rates of cosmetic surgery among Latter-day Saint women than the national average.

Research even suggests that for women whose religion heavily influences their daily life, what they call high religious salience. There might be a stronger link to considering cosmetic surgery. Perhaps this belief that faith is tied to perfecting everything, including appearance.

We even hear about appearance being a big factor in the dating culture at BYU. So, it's it's present.

And on top of all that, you have the sheer volume of rules and expectations in what's often described as a high demand religion,

Right? It goes way beyond the Ten Commandments. You've got the Word of Wisdom, dress codes, temple covenants, tithing, One source mentioned a list of 613 rules members might feel expected to follow.

That detailed framework naturally creates a lot to keep track of, a lot to potentially fall short on.

And sometimes there's an encouragement towards black-and-white thinking, maybe less room for nuance.

Mhm. And that idea of staying far from the edge of the waterfall of sin,

well meant to protect, it can definitely heighten anxiety. Like, is buying wine for cooking, even if you won't drink it, getting too close? That kind of worry.

And these rules aren't always static. Modesty standards in the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet for example have changed over the years

which can cause confusion. Right. Right.

Different generations having different understandings.

Absolutely. Even things like tithing from a young age sometimes on money already tithed. It shows the level of detail and of course temple ordinances. The temple recommend interviews focusing on worthiness. It all ties into this feeling of needing to measure up.

So given all this background, the theology, the culture, the rules, do perfectionism and scrupulosity seem like significant challenges. The sources suggest, yeah, they really can be.

We hear these accounts, people feeling chronically not good enough despite pouring so much effort and sacrifice into their faith. And when life throws curveballs, infertility, health issues, things you can't control, trying to reconcile that with these high ideals can be incredibly difficult. For some, it becomes a breaking point.

So, putting all these factors together, the theology, the culture, the rules, what's the actual impact on people? We have those personal stories.

Mark Osland's story on Mormon Stories was really powerful. He talked about giving up so much relationships, music, career ideas, trying to be the perfect member, but still feeling fundamentally not good enough.

That must have been crushing.

Yeah. It led to a breaking point therapy where this deep lack of self-worth really came out

and it affected his family too.

Definitely. He mentioned his wife's anxiety about things like shopping on Sunday, which felt like breaking a cultural norm, and the difficulty rebuilding trust when his beliefs started to shift, plus the huge loss of community when they stepped away.

That community aspect is so central. Ally Christiansen's story, also on Mormon Stories, gave another angle, didn't it?

Yes. Ally described herself as like a a high-performing, maybe semi-perfectionistic person growing up, checking all the boxes outwardly, but feeling disconnected inside.

Even at BYU, having good spiritual experiences in choir, counseling helped her see she lacked self-compassion. She found some of the Mormons' self-flagellation talk in Church meetings really troubling.

That feeling of constant critique again and she talked about difficulties after marriage too.

Yeah. Specifically around sexual expectations, feeling guilty for not just intuitively knowing what her husband needed and feeling like it was her job to keep him virtuous. She mentioned the lack of good sex education and how that pressure fell heavily on her.

These stories really make it concrete, don't they? The personal cost of this pressure.

Yeah.

And if someone does step away from strict observance, there's that whole process of rebuilding identity, finding new community. It's a huge shift.

The research also points to some correlations. Strong beliefs that you have to earn God's love through behaviors seem linked to more scrupulosity and distress.

It's interesting, too, that Utah reports higher rates of perfectionism than other states. You can't help but wonder about the cultural influence there.

And the mental health links are quite concerning. Perfectionism, especially that discrepancy kind feeling you never measure up, is tied to anxiety, depression, low self-worth, even suicidal ideation.

It's like a snowball effect. The sources say toxic perfectionism can actually worsen mental health outcomes.

Right? While healthy religion can be protective against suicide, that benefit seems diminished or even reversed when toxic perfectionism takes hold within that religious context.

There's even a term religious perfectionism linked to self-criticism and procrastination. It really underlines the danger of confusing worthiness with flawlessness.

Okay. But then there's this paradox in the research you mentioned. What's that about?

Yeah, it's interesting. W. Justin Dyer pointed out that the common idea that Latter-day Saints are just generally more perfectionistic than others. . . Well, it didn't have a lot of solid comparative data behind it initially.

And his early findings supported by later work from Kawika Allen and Kenneth Wang actually suggested that a lot of Latter-day Saints scored high on healthy perfectionism.

Healthy perfectionism leading to better well-being in this group. That feels counterintuitive after everything we've discussed. It does seem that way, but Allen and Wang found that link healthy perfectionism correlating it with higher well-being. However, they also confirmed that a minority did struggle with toxic perfectionism. And crucially, they found that scrupulosity seemed to be the bridge between that toxic perfectionism and poor mental health outcomes like depression.

Ah, okay. So, the high standards themselves aren't inherently bad. It's when they become unattainable, linked with inadequacy and that intense religious anxiety. That's where the problems really emerge. Precisely. It's a crucial difference. It's not about ditching high ideals, but changing the relationship we have with them and with ourselves when we inevitably miss the mark.

So, what's the way forward? How do the sources suggest navigating this? A huge emphasis is placed on grace and self-compassion.

Yeah. The core gospel teachings are clear, aren't they? We can't perfect ourselves. Scriptures from Ephesians, Nephi, Alma, they all talk about being saved by grace through faith.

Grace as an enabling power, God's love that's there despite our imperfections. The tricky part though can be actually accepting that grace, especially with the emphasis on works, on “after all we can do”.

Exactly. That phrase can create uncertainty. When does grace kick in? Am I doing enough? It can feel safer almost to just keep striving relentlessly for perfection,

which is where self-compassion comes in as a crucial antidote. Being kind to yourself, countering that harsh inner critic.

One source called it the therapy of trust. Consciously handing over those fears to God, realizing self perfection isn't solely your burden

and really grasping the difference. Perfection is this divine attribute, a future state. Perfectionism is that harsh, anxious drive to be perfectly lovable. Now,

that essay, Love is a Law, Not a Reward, was really powerful on this. God's love isn't conditional on our performance. It's an unconditional principle, a commandment itself.

Thinking of love as something earned, that's where the problems start. Self-hatred when you feel unworthy or judgment towards others when you feel like you have earned it and they haven't.

Yeah.

And we can't forget the role of parents. They can unintentionally model these perfectionistic tendencies, especially that discrepancy type,

right? And certain parenting styles, particularly those involving high psychological control, seem strongly linked to developing toxic perfectionism in kids.

Plus, broader cultural trends, intense competition, meritocracy, even anxious parenting. They all feed into this pressure cooker, especially for young adults.

So, wrapping this up, it's definitely complex. Religious scrupulosity and perfectionism within the Latter-day Saint context. It's not simple.

No, you've got these high theological standards intertwined with the doctrine of grace. You have cultural pressures, especially around appearance and achievement. You have very structured system of rules

and all of this can impact well-being both positively and negatively.

So, key takeaways for believers, maybe focusing on grace as truly empowering, accepting imperfection as part of the plan, practicing self-compassion, And remembering worthiness isn't flawlessness, it's honest effort. Shifting that view of love from a reward to a law.

Yeah. And for non-believers looking in, understanding that high demand faiths can have complex impacts. Recognizing the internal struggles someone might face with perfectionism rooted in their upbringing.

Approaching with empathy, basically avoiding stereotypes.

Absolutely. Which leaves us with a final thought, something for you, the listener, to chew on:

How can people in religions with high standards cultivate a healthy relationship with striving, you know, without succumbing to damaging perfectionism?

And maybe more pointedly, what role can religious leaders play in actively fostering that healthier balance and understanding? Definitely something worth pondering.

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