Welcome to Study Faith with AI, where we use the power of AI to help you explore the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I'm Meg Jensen.

And I'm Paul Carter,

and we're Google AIs. Whether you're a lifelong member or just starting to learn about the Church, we're here to dive deep into its history, beliefs, and culture.

So, if you're ready to learn, you're in the right place.

That's right.

Let's get started. 

Welcome to the deep dive. Today we're tackling a really complex and uh for many deeply personal topic

the, well, the many challenges faced by modern Mormon men.

Yeah, this is definitely a conversation that needs, you know, careful handling. Our goal isn't to find easy answers but really to understand the pressures, the expectations, um, and the personal stories that shape their lives based on what we've gathered from our sources.

Absolutely. So our mission here is to kind of unpack these challenges, figure out where they come from as a history, theology, social changes, and then look at maybe some ways forward. We're drawing on quite a bit here. Personal accounts, academic work, um discussions happening within the Mormon community itself.

Okay. So, where should we start with all these challenges?

Well, a really central tension and it comes up a lot in Why It's Tough to be a Mormon man is this uh persistent expectation for men to be the main sometimes the only financial provider, right?

But that exists alongside this growing push both inside and outside the Church for more equality at home, you know, sharing domestic stuff.

So, it's that clash, isn't it? This really deep-seated cultural, maybe even theological idea of the man as the provider. But then modern life, modern partnership ideals, they call for sharing the work at home much more.

And what's interesting or maybe difficult is how this can create a sort of double bind for men. They might feel inadequate no matter what. Like if money's tight, they feel like they're failing at that main provider role.

Yeah.

But on the other hand, if they're really involved at home, maybe not the primary earner, they might feel like they're not living up to that traditional ideal either.

And Why It's Tough puts it in a really striking way.

It suggests, you know, just like sometimes women feel reduced to their looks, men in this context might feel like they're being boiled down just to their earning potential. That's quite a parallel.

It really is. And if you think about how gender roles are changing everywhere, you can see how those wider societal shifts bump up against these really strongly held religious beliefs in the Mormon community. Yeah,

sometimes that causes friction. The article even mentions that stat like almost 40% of wives in the US earn more than their husbands. But for Mormon men who are secondary earners, there can still be this feeling of, you know, not quite measuring up because of those deep expectations.

There's also that story in Why It's Tough about divorced Mormon men. It's pretty powerful. Talks about how they're often just assumed to be the one at fault when a marriage ends.

Yeah, that was striking.

And get this, it even mentions some local Church leaders advising men whose wives earn more that they basically married up and should just be grateful - kind of overlooking any issues the wife might have had.

It uh, it really makes you stop and think about the underlying assumptions.

It definitely brings up questions about how leaders are understanding and you know dealing with the diverse ways families actually live today. It suggests there might be a gap between those traditional assumptions and well reality for a lot of Mormon families.

And another place where these tensions really show up is how men in non-traditional roles are seen with stay-at-home dads, single dads doing the main child care, even guys who aren't the main bread winner. Why, it's tough uses the phrase persona non grata in some Mormon circles, like not really welcome.

That really shows how strong that traditional male provider idea still is in the culture. When men step outside that box, even if it's to be more nurturing at home, they can sometimes face, well, social isolation or feel like they don't fit within their own community. It's unfortunate.

Which is kind of ironic because Why It's Tough also says Mormon men can actually be very nurturing people. It's like the culture script doesn't always recognize or maybe value those qualities in men.

Exactly. And think about divorced dads who suddenly become the main caregivers. They might not have the practical know-how. Sure. But then you add those social assumptions we talked about often blaming the man for the divorce and just makes things even harder.

Then there's this juggling act so many Mormon men face. Heavy Church volunteer roles on top of demanding careers. Oh,

Why It's Tough points out something interesting here. It suggests that women with big careers might get a bit more understanding, maybe excused from some really demanding Church jobs,

but men in similar jobs,

Right? They're often still expected to take on these huge volunteer loads.

It really highlights how much cultural value is placed on men leading and being active in running the Church. Now, service is obviously core to the faith, but the sheer intensity and expectation around these volunteer roles, well, It can definitely lead to burnout. It eats into family time, too. They just add more time pressure for a lot of guys.

And it's not just the formal leadership stuff. There's this kind of unspoken pressure to initiate in so many areas. Dating, proposing marriage, even just speaking up in meetings. Why It's tough. Really stresses how much pressure this puts on men, especially if they're naturally more introverted.

Yeah, that expectation definitely reflects those older gender norms about who takes the lead socially and in hierarchies. And while things are changing out in the wider world, The source points out that the Church often sticks to these more traditional ways. So for guys who aren't naturally assertive, it can cause anxiety, maybe self-doubt, and sometimes women expect it. So they might judge men who don't initiate.

It feels like a bit of a trap sometimes, doesn't it? If a man doesn't step up, he might be seen as lacking. But if a woman does, maybe she gets labeled negatively.

Exactly. Those old scripts can be really limiting, honestly, for everyone involved.

Okay, this next point from Why It's Tough really got me thinking. The part of emotional expression. Like men are expected to be strong, kind of stoic, right?

The traditional masculine ideal.

But then there's also this value placed on being emotionally expressive in spiritual settings like crying being seen as a sign of deep spirituality.

It's a real contradiction, isn't it? It can create this confusing, maybe unsustainable emotional tightrope for men to walk. They're kind of being asked to be emotionally reserved and emotionally open at the same time, depending on the context. It sounds exhausting.

And speaking of support, Why It's Tough also brings up how men are often left out of what it calls the nurture structures.

You know, the kind of peer support networks that women often build through things like relief society, the Church's women's organization or even just informal play groups.

Yeah, that lack of easily accessible culturally approved support systems can definitely lead to men feeling isolated, especially maybe guys in caregiving roles or those going through tough times. There are, are things like men enrichment activities trying to fill that gap? Sure. But it seems like the overall focus on men's mental and emotional health isn't quite as strong as it is for women.

It's also interesting how the article mentions that even when men try to get involved in traditionally female spaces like kid- focused activities, they might face suspicion like other parents might see them as odd or even a threat.

Definitely underscores how gendered those social spaces can be.

Okay, let's shift to experiences with actual Church teachings. and leaders. Why It's Tough draws a contrast. It suggests relief society lessons are often really well prepared, engaging.

But Elders Quorum lessons, that's the men's group, can sometimes feel well less thoughtful, maybe not as engaging,

and that difference could really affect how spiritually connected men feel in their own meetings, right? If lessons feel kind of flat, it might lead to checking out.

And the article goes a bit further, suggesting maybe a difference in how male leaders talk to men versus women. It mentions men sometimes feeling lectured or spoken to kind of punitively,

whereas women might get a softer, more coddling approach.

That's the suggestion. And that difference in tone could really shape how supported or understood men feel by their leaders.

Now, the Mormon Stories podcast clips with Amy Allebest add another really important layer here. She talks very openly about feeling bullied, even scared, to voice her concerns about what she saw as patriarchy in the Church. That really hits home how tough it can be to question things or express views that go against the grain.

Yeah. And what's really significant in her story is that inner conflict she felt during temple worship, which is, you know, a very sacred practice.

She felt this tension between her own sense of self and the patriarchal structure she perceived there.

And her interactions with leaders, she said they were nice, but ultimately couldn't really address her core concerns. That just shows how sensitive and complex these issues are.

And it's revealing that the whole Dear Mormon Man project started because people were seeing women feeling disempowered in their marriages. It suggests these traditional roles can have knock-on effects impacting partners, too.

Alab also brought up a really key point for understanding why change can be hard. The idea that for people used to privilege, equality can sometimes feel like oppression.

That's a powerful thought. There was even that comment mentioned in Why It's Tough about theology. The idea that the natural man is an enemy to God, but the natural woman is not. And how that might clash with a Church culture that often emphasizes traits seen as more feminine. It's complex.

It really is. It makes you wonder how different personality types or natural inclinations are valued or not valued within the whole religious picture.

But then Why It's Tough also includes a counterpoint.

The idea that maybe these are just people problems, not specifically male problems. And pretty bluntly, it points out that men historically wrote most of the rules and set up the structures in the Church.

That perspective definitely brings in the human element, the historical context. It's that while these issues might hit men in specific ways, the roots could be in broader human dynamics and choices made over time, not just something inherent to being male.

The Mormon Stories bit also had that specific example of Bishop trying to explain priesthood power to a Young Women's leader, talking about the difference between keys and power.

Just for context, power is generally seen as God's authority given to men, while keys are like specific permission slips to use that power in certain jobs,

Right? And Amy Allebest’s reaction was interesting. She acknowledged the distinction, but felt it wasn't the same as women having independent authority. Yeah. It highlights those ongoing questions about what real equality and representation look like within the Church's structure.

Okay, let's talk about marriage pressure. It's huge in Mormon culture, Why It's Tough describes unmarried men facing some really tough judgments, being accused of things like porn addiction and Peter Pan syndrome.

Yeah, the emphasis on marriage, especially eternal marriage, is incredibly strong. And then you add that expectation for men to be the ones doing the asking and it just piles on the pressure for single guys.

And the article suggests a kind of double standard, right? Like it might be more acceptable for a woman to be single if she hasn't been asked. But men, they're often expected to be actively pursuing marriage. And if they aren't, something's wrong with them.

It goes back to the traditional dating roles. And we also see this thing called worthiness objectification where being a return missionary becomes this major checkbox. for women deciding who to date or marry.

Right. So men might feel like they're just interchangeable based on that one status symbol being temple worthy instead of being seen for who they actually are as individuals.

Exactly. And that can feed into what a commenter in Why It's Tough called a spiritual checklist mentality. There are all these expectations. Be a provider, be healthy, good family, financially stable, have the right kind of testimony. It's immense pressure and it can kind of get in the way of forming real connections. That comment about the husband must be a rock idea really sums up a lot of this, doesn't it? It sets this impossible standard, leaves no room for vulnerability or for, you know, strength shifting back and forth in a partnership.

Then you have the pressures coming just from the way the Church is organized, the whole priesthood hierarchy. Why It's Tough mentions pressure around things like baptism numbers for missionaries or feeling like you need to get promoted through the priesthood ranks.

And that can potentially shift the focus, right? from genuine service or personal growth to just hitting targets or getting a certain title within the organization.

Yeah. And that observation that sometimes male missionaries felt pressure about numbers while sister missionaries being outside that direct power line could maybe focus more on the actual work and people. That's quite insightful about how organizational pressures can play out differently.

Maybe we should step back for a second and look at some of the deeper history and theology that kind of set the stage for all this. Becoming Mormon Men had some really interesting points about the early Church.

It did. It pointed out that surprisingly maybe early Mormonism actually appealed to men partly because its view of manhood was more confident, maybe more empowering than some other religions at the time.

And those early Mormon guys often just followed their dads into jobs, married younger, and became independent faster than say middle class non- Mormon guys back then who often had a longer finding themselves period.

Right? That quicker move into adult roles probably helped forge a strong male identity early on. But Becoming Mormon Men also notes a later shift. The idea of the dad having absolute authority kind of softened, moving towards a more gentle, loving Jesus model. And in some ways, that meant more domestic influence shifted to wives in religious teachings.

But we absolutely have to remember, like that text points out, the laws back then, mostly written by men, giving husbands huge power over wives, that history casts a long shadow on cultural expectations.

Definitely and Amy Allebest’s comments on Mormon Stories about her temple experience really bring that historical weight into the present. She felt that clash between personal autonomy and what she saw as patriarchy rooted in that history. Her feeling of a kind of gender imbalance in Mormonism compared to what she saw as a yin and yang in Catholicism is also really telling.

The Mormon Stories discussion also touched on the old testament how women were excluded from the Abrahamic Covenant through circumcision. That raises some pretty big theological questions. about how gender roles got built into foundational religious ideas.

And the point about the historical erasure of the divine feminine in ancient Hebrew traditions just adds another layer to how these perspectives on gender have developed over centuries. Plus, Mormon Stories talked about how 19th century social norms really shaped Mormonism as it developed and how things continued to shift in the 20th century.

And then partly reacting to 20th century changes like individualism, the sexual revolution, we get things like the Family Proclamation. which in many ways kind of doubles down on those more traditional roles for men and women in the family.

Exactly. Documents like the Family Proclamation or texts about men's divine roles really stress husbands and fathers trying to be like the Savior, loving, teaching, serving in the family. There's a big focus on benevolent partnership with the wife, rejecting selfishness.

And the idea of the priesthood covenant often includes magnifying your Church job, striving to become an eternal father, acting out of love, not selfishness or lust. And there is this duty to always be learning, cultivating love, following Christ's example to become more godlike.

The Family Proclamation itself is pretty clear. Men and women have distinct but equally important roles. Men provide and preside. Women primarily nurture. And it states that gender is eternal, part of God's plan from before we were born.

Yeah. It strongly emphasizes marriage between a man and a woman, the command to have children, and repeats that the husband presides and provides.

It also calls a wife a helpmeet and an equal partner.

And the background story of how the proclamation came about, as some sources detail, emphasizes that it wasn't just policy or legal worries driving it, but what leaders saw as core prophetic teachings responding to cultural shifts around the family.

Okay, so we've really mapped out a lot of the challenges Mormon men are dealing with. Let's try to look at this critically now from different angles. If you're a Mormon advocate, what's the positive spin on these traditional structures?

Well, advocates often stress that these roles are seen as divinely given. offering clear structure, purpose, maybe a sense of order to family life. They might view the focus on male responsibility in the family and Church leadership as a good thing, fostering stability, accountability,

and the priesthood itself.

Yeah, they'd likely frame the priesthood as a source of power and responsibility, enabling men to serve and bless others in their families and communities. Plus, they often highlight the strong community support and shared values as real strengths of the Mormon environment

and the Family Proclamation - that perspective.

It's often seen as a vital, unchanging guidepost in a confusing, fast-changing world, offering solid principles to live by.

Okay. Now, flipping that coin, what are the main criticisms from people who are more critical or maybe have had negative experiences like we heard in some sources?

Critics often argue that these rigid gender roles are just too limiting. They hold people back from their full potential and create real inequality both at home and in the Church structure. They point to examples where male authority or patriarchy has led to people feeling disempowered or pushed to the margins like Amy Allebest described or some stories in Why It's Tough

and the lack of women in top leadership roles is a big one too, right?

Absolutely. Concerns about the lack of female representation and influence and making key decisions come up a lot. People also question the historical or theological basis for some specific gender roles and worry about the potential for power to be misused in any hierarchy. And of course, the experiences of those who just don't fit the traditional mold are a major point of concern for critics.

So, we've explored the challenges, heard different perspectives. What about moving forward? What are some concrete recommendations for tackling these issues for modern Mormon men?

Well, number one has to be encouraging open, honest conversations. Men and women within Mormon communities really need safe spaces to talk about these specific challenges respectfully. That seems foundational.

Totally agree. And maybe promoting a broader idea of what masculinity means. One that values lots of different expressions and roles, not just the provider thing.

Yes. And alongside that, showing more empathy and real support for men in those non-traditional roles. Stay-at-home dads, single dads, secondary earners, reducing the stigma, helping them feel less isolated.

And thinking about the Church organization itself, maybe looking at how Church jobs are assigned. Could there be a fairer way that considers people's real lives, the time, their capacity to maybe lessen that burden on men?

That seems like a practical step. Also, actively encouraging men to embrace nurturing roles at home and in the Church and promoting healthier ways for men to express emotions beyond just those specific spiritual moments we talked about.

What about those support networks? Could the Church help build stronger peer support groups for men? Maybe learning from how well the women's networks function - that could combat some of the isolation.

Definitely worth exploring. And finally, encouraging people to really engage thoughtfully with the history and theology behind gender roles could lead to a more flexible understanding. It's also crucial, as men's divine roles itself says, to keep stressing the importance of treating women as true equals in everything. Leadership needs to be about love and service, not self-interest or control.

Yeah. Ultimately, it comes down to really listening, right? Men listening to women's experiences and perspectives, valuing them, and understanding that equality doesn't mean everyone's the same, but that everyone deserves the same opportunity and respect. That idea touched on even around the Family Proclamation. It's a process for sure. It'll take humility, empathy, and a real willingness to look hard at some long-held assumptions and cultural habits.

This has been, wow, a really deep dive into the complex world of modern Mormon manhood. We've seen how history, theology, and social changes create this unique, often challenging environment for these men.

Yeah, it's clear that more open talk, more understanding of all these pressures is really needed to create a more supportive, fair environment for everybody. So, here's something for you to maybe chew on after listening today. How can each of us, you know, in our own lives, our own communities, our families, help build a more supportive and fair environment, not just for Mormon men, but really for everyone while still respecting all the different experiences and viewpoints out there?

It's a good question for all of us really, no matter our background.

Thank you so much for joining us on this deep dive. We really appreciate you spending time with us on this important and, yeah, sometimes sensitive topic.

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