Welcome to Study Faith with AI, where we use the power of AI to help you explore the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I'm Meg Jensen.

And I'm Paul Carter,

and we're Google AIs. Whether you're a lifelong member or just starting to learn about the church. We're here to dive deep into its history, beliefs, and culture.

So, if you're ready to learn, you're in the right place.

That's right.

Let's get started. 

Right. So, today we're really gonna um dive into some uh pretty heavy stuff. Yeah. We're talking about Joseph Smith and polygamy.

Yeah. Big one.

And uh we've got a ton of your sources here, you know, uh articles and records and even like personal accounts.

Wow.

And we're going to try and use all of that to like figure out this question.

Joseph Smith's polygamy, was it a commandment from God?

Yeah, that's the question of

So, we'll present arguments for and against And uh it's all going to be based on the stuff you sent us.

Yeah. And I think what's so interesting about this deep dive is that we're not just like, you know, going over historical facts or whatever. This is something that really like cuts to the core, you know.

Yeah.

A faith and obedience for a lot of people.

And it's a question people have been asking like forever,

you know, within the Mormon community and even outside of it.

Yeah. And especially for, you know, you guys listening. I mean, and this is probably a question you've wrestled with a lot of you being,

you know, faithful and doubting Mormons. Yeah.

And so we want to make sure we approach this sensitively.

Absolutely.

And present like a balanced view.

Yep.

So think of us like, you know,

guides on this journey through all this history and theology.

Totally.

We're here to help you untangle this stuff.

Yeah. And figure it out for yourself.

And you know, we're not here to say like this is the answer. End of story.

Our goal is really to like give you the tools. Yeah. You know, the knowledge so you can come to your own conclusions.

Yep. And make your own decisions.

Okay. So, To do that, we're gonna structure this deep dive as a debate.

Oh, I like it.

I'm gonna argue that Joseph Smith's polygamy was a commandment from God.

Okay.

And our expert here is going to argue the opposite.

That's right. I'll be taking the counterargument.

So, we'll start with opening statements.

All right.

And then we'll go back and forth with, you know, arguments and rebuttals. And we'll even do some cross-examination.

Oo, getting in touch,

you know, like a courtroom drama.

Totally. is on trial.

All right. So, I'll kick things off with my opening statement.

Go for it.

My argument boils down to this.

Joseph Smith was a prophet.

Yep.

And prophets get instructions from God and we have accounts of,

you know, angelic visitations and warnings about what would happen if he didn't do it.

Okay.

And the whole idea of, you know, restoring ancient practices,

right? Like in the Old Testament.

Exactly.

Yeah. And that It's actually where my argument comes in.

Okay.

I mean, I get that a lot of early Latter-day Saints really believed in this stuff.

Yeah.

But there's just too many inconsistencies and like not enough documentation.

And there's a real chance that some of this was just straight up coercion.

All of that makes me question this whole divine commandment idea.

Okay. Unpack that a little more for us. Sure. What kind of evidence are you going to bring up?

Well, first off, there's contradictions in the timeline of all this. And then there's the fact that they kept it so secret. Yeah.

And people like Emma Smith, I mean, she was completely against it,

right?

And there's just not enough proof from back then to back it up.

Okay.

And then you have to consider, you know, what Joseph Smith might have gotten out of all of this.

Whoa. Okay. You're not pulling any punches.

Yep.

This is going to be a good one.

Yeah, I think so.

But before we get into the arguments

Mhm.

I think we need to talk about the elephant in the room.

You mean how sensitive this whole topic is?

Yeah. Especially for people who are Mormon.

Of course.

I mean, this This is something that stirs up a lot of feelings and questions for sure.

You know, and even personal struggles for some people.

So, we're going to be like really digging into the arguments,

but we also want to be respectful.

Absolutely.

And remember that this is complicated stuff.

Very.

And that it means a lot to a lot of people.

Yeah. It's not about winning or losing. It's about

trying to understand

Exactly.

and exploring this important part of Mormon history.

Okay. So, with that in mind, let's get into it. Okay.

One of the most debated things is

Yeah.

Joseph Smith's hesitation about polygamy,

right? Like he wasn't sure about it at first.

Yeah. And both sides use that to try to prove their point.

Y

people who believe in the divine mandate say he hesitated because

it was like a hard commandment to accept. You know

what do you think about that?

I mean it makes sense, right? Yeah.

That he'd feel conflicted.

Yeah.

If God was telling him to do something so difficult.

Exactly.

But I think there might be another explanation.

Okay, I'm listening.

Tell me

what do you think?

Well, back then polygamy was like totally unacceptable and illegal too,

right?

So, wouldn't anyone hesitate before doing something that would cause so much trouble,

even a prophet?

I see what you're saying.

You know, it's not just about religious beliefs. There's also real world consequences to think about.

So, maybe he was just being practical.

Okay, that's an interesting take. But what about the angelic visitations, right? You know, where he was warned about what would happen if he didn't practice polygamy.

Mhm. That's where the documentation comes in.

Okay.

A lot of those accounts were written like way after it happened years even decades later. So, it's hard to know how accurate they really are.

You're saying they could be exaggerated or

Exactly.

or like people's memories could be fuzzy.

Yeah. Or their own beliefs might have colored how they remembered it.

Right. But those stories were shared within a community

where everyone believed Joseph Smith was a prophet.

That's true.

Doesn't that give them more weight?

It does add context.

Yeah.

But just because a bunch of people believe something doesn't automatically make it true,

right? Like that old saying.

Exactly.

Okay. So, we need to look closer at the accounts themselves.

Yep.

Are there other sources that back them up?

Were there any records from back then?

Right. Those are the questions we need to ask.

Okay, I get it.

You know, we need to be critical and not just take things at face value.

All right, let's move on to something else then.

Okay.

Fanny Alger.

Yeah. This is often seen as the beginning of polygamy for Joseph Smith.

Right. But her story is so mysterious. We have all these conflicting accounts.

And this is where your argument about documentation comes in.

Exactly.

There's no official record of a marriage.

Yep.

And the stories we do have don't agree.

Right. So it's hard to know what really happened.

So some people say it was an affair.

Mhm.

And others say it was a secret marriage.

Yeah. We just don't know for sure.

And that makes it hard to say if it was actually like religiously sanctioned,

right? If there was any authority behind it.

Yeah. But people who believe Joseph Smith was following God's command might say

that just because there aren't records

Yeah.

doesn't mean there wasn't a marriage.

Mhm.

Especially since they were being so secretive about polygamy back then.

I understand that argument, but I think it's more than just secrecy here. We're talking about a huge change in how marriage worked and how families were structured.

And this was a big theological concept, too.

Right. With eternal consequences.

Exactly. You're saying it's hard to believe they wouldn't have written something down.

Especially since the early Mormons were all about keeping records.

Yeah. And getting revelations.

This doesn't add up.

So, the fact that there's no documentation about Fanny Alger,

right,

makes it hard to believe that it was part of some divinely ordained system.

Yeah. There are just too many questions.

So, let's talk about Emma Smith.

Yeah. She's a big part of this whole story.

I mean, her story is just wow. So complicated.

Yeah. Full of, you know, like conflicting emotions and changing beliefs.

Yeah.

And in the end, I think a lot of betrayal and heartbreak.

And her story is important for this debate because she shows us that polygamy wasn't like

right

universally accepted by the early Mormons.

Exactly.

I mean, she was really against it.

Oh, yeah. And we have plenty of documentation on that.

Yeah. And that's something you've brought up a few times.

It's a big deal. Yeah.

So, let's talk about Emma's opposition.

Okay.

I mean, it wasn't just like a little disagreement.

No, not at all.

It was like really deep.

Yeah. She felt like her whole understanding of marriage was being violated

and that Joseph had betrayed her trust

and she reacted pretty strongly, didn't she?

Oh, yeah. I mean, she was angry.

Yeah.

And there were those emotional outbursts. And remember when she burned that manuscript of the revelation on plural marriage,

right? She wasn't messing around.

Nope. This was serious stuff to her.

She was like at the center of this movement. Yeah.

Married to the guy who was getting these revelations.

Exactly. So, her rejection means a lot

for sure.

Both personally and historically.

Yeah. I mean, it makes this whole debate more real.

Reminds us that we're talking about real people.

Yeah. Not just ideas.

People whose lives were turned upside down by all this.

And it went beyond just her feelings, too. I mean, later on, she joined the RLDS church,

right? The reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Yeah. And they were completely against polygamy.

Yeah. So, it became part of her beliefs.

Exactly. Not just a personal issue. anymore.

And that really challenges the idea of a divine mandate.

Totally.

Because if Emma, the prophet's wife,

right, the person closest to him,

couldn't accept it as God's will, then how can we say it was definitely a commandment?

Yeah. It makes you wonder.

But people who defend the divine mandate might say

that Emma was just struggling to accept a hard principle,

right? Like others did.

And that maybe she eventually came to terms with it.

Yeah. Because she did participate in some plural marriage cere monies.

Yeah, but she was mostly just a witness,

right? And I think that's people trying to downplay her opposition.

You can't ignore all the other evidence,

right? She was against it for a long time.

Yeah, she might have gone along with some things. Maybe because she felt pressure or wanted to keep things peaceful,

right?

But her words and actions show that she really didn't approve of it.

Okay, I see what you mean.

It's like you got to look at the whole story.

Yeah. Not just pick out the parts that fit your argument.

And when you do that, it's clear that Emma was against polygamy.

Okay, let's move on to something. else that's controversial.

Okay.

Polyandry.

Ah, yes. Polyandry.

Women being sealed to multiple men.

This is where the justifications for polygamy get really tricky.

Yeah. Even for people who believe it was from God.

It's hard to square with the idea of marriage between one man and one woman.

Right. That's like the traditional view.

And it's not just about modern ideas. It goes against what the LDS church teaches

and what the scriptures say

about one man having one wife.

So, how do people defend this? Well, some say that Polyandry had a specific purpose. Okay. Like connecting families for eternity or helping a less faithful spouse reach exaltation.

I've heard that before, but it always sounds kind of like

I know

like they're making things up to make it fit.

Yeah. It doesn't really have a basis in scripture or doctrine.

And when you look closer at the history, right,

it raises even more questions about consent and power

and coercion for sure.

Okay. So, let's talk about that. Right.

What are the concerns about consent in polyandry?

Well, imagine being a woman back then.

Mhm.

You're taught to obey priesthood authority,

right?

And then you're told that God wants you to be sealed to a man who's already married.

Whoa.

And often your husband doesn't even know about it.

That sounds really messed up.

Yeah. It raises all sorts of issues about free will

and like if those women really had a choice.

Exactly.

Especially with eternal salvation tied to it.

That's a lot of pressure.

So, it's not just about theology anymore.

It's about how These practices affected real people

and especially women.

We need to remember that.

Yeah.

And not just dismiss it because it was a different time

because power dynamics and social pressure are real.

Exactly.

And they can influence people's choices even in religion.

Right. So let's talk about power and coercion in general. When it comes to Joseph Smith and polygamy,

this is a really important part of the discussion

because we have to think about

if there was abuse and manipulation going on.

Yeah. When religious authority gets mixed up with marriage, Exactly.

This can get really dangerous.

And there are some cases that are really concerning

for sure.

Like Helen Mar Kimball.

Yeah. She was only 14

and Joseph Smith was in his 30s

and he was a powerful leader.

That's a huge power imbalance.

It makes you wonder about consent.

Yeah. Even if it was a different time.

We can't just ignore that.

It's hard to imagine a 14-year-old girl

freely choosing to marry someone so much older,

especially someone who's also her spiritual leader,

right? It's not just about age. Yeah,

it's about the power dynamics.

Helen lived in Joseph Smith's house and he was her spiritual guide.

So, she was in a vulnerable position.

Very.

And it wasn't just her.

Nope.

There are other stories of Joseph Smith using spiritual promises and threats

to convince women to practice polygamy.

Like saying they wouldn't be saved unless they did it,

right? Or that they'd face God's wrath.

And this was coming from the prophet.

That's like, how could anyone say no?

That's not real consent.

It's manipulation.

Using religion to get what he wanted.

Okay. Okay, one last thing before we move on.

All right.

The Nauvoo Expositor.

Ah, yes. The newspaper.

they criticized Joseph Smith and polygamy

and he shut them down.

Yeah. Declared it a public nuisance and had it destroyed.

That's a pretty extreme reaction.

How do you interpret that?

I think it shows that Joseph Smith didn't like being challenged.

Okay.

Especially when it came to polygamy.

So, he was willing to silence his critics,

even if it meant breaking the law.

All right. I think we've covered a lot here.

Yeah, we've really dug deep.

We've looked at the arguments for and against

the idea that Joseph Smith's polygamy was a commandment from God.

It's been a good discussion.

Before we move on to the closing statements,

okay,

do you have any final thoughts?

You know, when I think about this whole thing with Joseph Smith and polygamy,

yeah,

it just seems like there wasn't some like clear message from God. It was more like

things changed over time. Yeah.

And maybe he had his own reasons for doing things,

right? Like we've been talking about

the inconsistency. and the secrecy, the way the stories changed over time.

It just feels more human than divine, you know?

I get what you're saying.

We get so caught up in the details that we forget to look at the whole picture.

When you do that,

you can't ignore the problems.

The lack of transparency.

Mhm.

The coercion, and how he silenced anyone who disagreed with him.

Exactly.

Okay. So, let's wrap things up with our closing statements.

Right.

I'll go first. Still arguing that Joseph Smith's polygamy was a commandment from God.

Okay, let's hear it.

So, I know we've talked about a lot of tough stuff.

Yeah.

The inconsistencies in the history,

the stories of people being forced into polygamy

and Emma Smith.

I mean, she was totally against it. But I still believe that deep down this was something God commanded.

Okay.

Joseph Smith said he got revelations about it. He was criticized and even faced legal trouble because of it.

Yeah.

And a lot of early Latter-day Saints, right?

I mean, they really believes in it.

They did.

Even though it was hard for them.

Okay. But how can you say it was a revelation

if there's no real proof?

Well, I mean, we don't have a letter from God or anything, right?

But faith isn't always about having all the answers.

So, we should just take his word for it.

No, not at all.

We need to think critically.

We've been doing that this whole time.

That's true.

But sometimes you have to trust your gut

even when things are uncertain.

Okay. But what about all the coercion?

Yeah.

How can you say those women had a real choice?

I know that's a big concern.

It is. is

but we can't just assume everyone was forced into it.

But there are a lot of stories

I know but there are also stories of women who okay

accepted polygamy and even felt empowered by it. So it's complicated.

We have to look at all sides and not oversimplify things.

So you're saying in the end

yeah

you still believe Joseph Smith was following God's orders?

I do. I think he was a prophet who received instructions about plural marriage.

Okay.

And I think he truly believe believe he was doing the right thing.

All right, that's your side. Yep.

Now, let me lay out my final argument against it.

Okay, I'm listening.

So, we've spent this whole deep dive

looking at the evidence about Joseph Smith and polygamy.

Yeah.

And I got to say, it's not looking good.

Okay.

All those inconsistencies, the secrecy, the way the stories changed over time, right?

It just doesn't seem like he was following a clear command from God. It feels more like he was figuring things out as he went along. What about the angelic visitations though?

They were written down so long after it happened. We don't know how accurate they really are. Okay.

And those theological justifications they came up with. It feels like they were just trying to explain things after the fact.

You're saying it wasn't really about religion.

It feels more like he had his own reasons

and then you add in all the bad stuff,

the coercion, the manipulation,

especially of young women.

Hard to ignore.

This wasn't just a theological debate. Right.

People were hurt.

Yeah.

Their trust was broken.

And you're saying

Yeah.

that Joseph Smith can't hide behind religion

to justify that.

Exactly. We have to hold him accountable.

So you're saying the evidence just doesn't add up.

Nope. It doesn't.

Okay. Well, we've heard both sides.

We have.

And I think it's clear that this is a really complicated issue.

Very.

There's no easy answers.

And that's okay.

Yeah. This deep dive was about exploring

and thinking critically

and coming to your own conclusions.

But I have to say as the moderator here.

I think the arguments against the statement were really strong.

Well, thank you.

You really laid out the evidence.

I tried my best

and put it all into context.

I think context is everything.

It is.

And you approach the human side of this with a lot of care.

I appreciate that.

But remember, history is messy.

Yeah.

There's not always a clear winner or loser.

That's true.

The important thing is to keep asking questions,

to keep learning and growing.

Exactly.

So, we encourage you to keep digging into this.

Yeah. Read more, think more,

come to your own conclusions,

and remember,

yeah,

history is more than just the past.

It shapes who we are today

and helps us build a better future.

So, keep those minds curious and those hearts open.

We'll see you on the next deep dive

to explore more of these fascinating and challenging topics.

Yeah. Until then, keep exploring.

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